Some issues how Teklogix is handling its product numbers:
1. A lot of parts are without number resp. Teklogix is not communicating it, eg. product no. for mechanical stop RA2041 (which is 1051007) can not be found anywhere.
2. Product specifications change, but are still sold under same product number, eg. battery WA3000, former 1700mAh cells, later 2000mAh. This is a no-go, no other manufactorer causes such a mess.
3. Product names are often strange, include technical infos or accessories infos ("not suitable for ...", "4x screws included").
4. A lot confusion with product codes "WA3000" and related P/N numbers. Spre parts are even worse documented.
5. hardware revisions are not stingent (sometimes Rev. A/B, sometimes added -002 to P/N), and more important, never documented.
The life as reseller of Teklogix hardware has ben always painful. I doubt the new open source policy will chage it. please proove otherwise :-)
Christoph
The really good part of this community is the opportunity to share ideas. Constructive criticism is always welcomed by people who want to grow and improve. Good constructive criticism is usually followed up with suggestions on how to make things better. Again this community provides a forum for everyone to contact people within all levels our organization and to share ideas to help improve every aspect of our company. If used correctly this community will prove to be worth the time and effort.
Thanks for the Post Christoph,
I’m the Vice President of Customer Operations and Logistics for Psion Teklogix and as such, thought I would be a good one to try and reply to your posting. You can see my answers below.
The Radio module for the WAP RA2041 includes the mechanical stop that you mention. So every time you order the radio you will receive this Stop. Normally the constituent parts of such kits or modules are only available to Psion Teklogix “Approved Service Centres” (ASC’s), as these are the partners that have been trained to perform Service on our products and that have the lists of spare parts freely communicated available to them. There is a process to become an ASC. Let me know via email if you’d like to apply and I will forward it to the relevant teams – There would need to be a very strong argument from your side to be accepted, but applying is always an option.
We have developed a concept of “model number” so that our partners are not impacted by every small change to a component within the “model”. In the example you provide “WA3000” is the model number for the Standard Cap battery for the original Workabout Pro (Which has by the way been superseded by WA3006 about 2 years ago), and during the life of that “model” there could be multiple changes to the component product (s) – perhaps a supplier change, perhaps ecological labeling or country regulatory approvals, perhaps cosmetic changes, or as in the example you pose sometimes an improvement to the specification. We would not change the model number necessarily for any of these reasons – unless there was a real backward compatibility issue with previous versions, or if the change was significant enough to warrant a whole new Model number. Most partners I’ve talked to welcome this reduction in churn of part numbers that such a system delivers to the channel.
I agree with you. I think our product descriptions are not good enough nor clear enough. This is good feedback and one that we will push back to the relevant teams for the next round of product launches.
I think this is a duplication of point 2. We communicate part numbers via our Master Price List to approved partners and via a separate list to our ASC partners (for spares). We are allocating much more resource to these publications to ensure completeness, accuracy and ease of use. In your example you continue to use very old, obsolete Model numbers. Maybe you should ask your distributor for an updated list??
Again it seems you are speaking about information that would be available to approved ASC’s, where documentation for significant hardware revisions is available – and again, we are working to make this data even more available and easy to access for our ASC partners.
A lot of people in every part of this company are working very hard to proove this to you, your feedback, if constructive, will help in that process.
Tim Marshall
Hi Christoph;
I am responsible for WW product marketing and wanted to also add on to this conversation.
Frankly, I agree with your comments about “strange” product naming.
For that reason, late last year we embarked on an exercise to drive maximum consistency and readability across all our product and accessory names. If you have a copy of the Q1 2010 Master Price List, you will see the results of the program, designed to address your exact observation.
We have not yet changed the back end databases for existing products, as doing so would have major implications to many of our partners.
Going forward all new products will follow this improved naming structure, both in data bases and published materials. We even modified our database layouts to accept longer names giving us better naming flexibility for improved clarity.
Hope this is helpful, if you need a copy of the MPL you can get one from your local distributor partner, or let us know and we will be able to assist.
-Mike
A very interesting thread (to a configuration control guy anyway) - thanks all for contributing.
I am responsible for Product Data Management, ensuring proper numbering conventions are applied to all items that make up our product.
Further to these two points Tim Marshall has made:
"2. Product specifications change, but are still sold under same product number, e.g.. battery WA3000, former 1700mAh cells, later 2000mAh. This is a no-go, no other manufactorer causes such a mess.
We have developed a concept of “model number” so that our partners are not impacted by every small change to a component within the “model”. In the example you provide “WA3000” is the model number for the Standard Cap battery for the original Workabout Pro (Which has by the way been superseded by WA3006 about 2 years ago), and during the life of that “model” there could be multiple changes to the component product (s) – perhaps a supplier change, perhaps ecological labeling or country regulatory approvals, perhaps cosmetic changes, or as in the example you pose sometimes an improvement to the specification. We would not change the model number necessarily for any of these reasons – unless there was a real backward compatibility issue with previous versions, or if the change was significant enough to warrant a whole new Model number. Most partners I’ve talked to welcome this reduction in churn of part numbers that such a system delivers to the channel."
Associated with each model number there is also an unique part number that will identify the specific version of the item. Tim is certainly correct that in most cases, the customer is not concerned about every little change that is made to the item as long as the performance is equal or better to the previous version and having a fixed model number makes it easy to get the functionally equivalent (or better) item the next time. In the case of the battery pack example given, there are also unique part numbers that describes the different capacities and may be used to reference that unique version of the model.
"5. hardware revisions are not stingent (sometimes Rev. A/B, sometimes added -002 to P/N), and more important, never documented.
Again it seems you are speaking about information that would be available to approved ASC’s, where documentation for significant hardware revisions is available – and again, we are working to make this data even more available and easy to access for our ASC partners."
This is again related to our internal number conventions and I can further elaborate on Tim's response;
If the item changes a revision letter, it would be considered a minor change that would not effect the form/fit/function of the item. This type of change most often is a result of documentation clarification on the supply side or sometimes a minor improvement is made to the part that does not affect the item in its application. So to the end user, the part is fully compatible and interchangeable with the previous revision.
When the part number changes (including what we call the dash number) it means that the change is significant enough that the parts are no longer fully compatible in form, fit or function and therefore "may not be fully compatible in all applications". Typically when the part number change is only within the numbers behind the dash the item family all have similar applications with some difference that matter for some applications. A good example of this is the different dash numbers we may apply for a cable that performs the same function but may have different temperature ratings allowing the one version to have better performance (e.g. maintaining its flexibility) at extreme temperatures.
I hope this shows that there is logical reasoning behind our number system.
Hi Mike,
we can create an online web based configurator as it will help in configuring most of the options in VMT /HHT. It will also eliminate any human error in arrving at the smart numbering. an option to export the configuration in excel will ease the ordreing process.
The current smart numbering requires careful scrutiny/double verification etc as even a single digit can change the whole confiuration.
Dear Prakash,
Very soon you will see an online Quote tool that allows you to configure products online and one that will always be updated for prices and variants.
I checked the MPL 2010 and see a lot of helpful improvements, thanks Tim&Mike for your feedback.
Have a quick look to the daily reality in the end customer sales frontier:
Customer: I lost/broke the mechanical stop provided with my Radio RA2041.
Seller: I will ask my supply for spare part.
Teklogix: please contact ASC / distributor
Distributor: we are not allowed to give away any spare parts
ASC: send the unit back to us
Customer: damn I just need the small plastic part, what a lousy service
Chris
Let me add one example of product change mess:
Seller: order WAP G2
Distributor: ships Rev.-007 units, no communication of changes
Customer: the unit is not powering on out-of-the-box. Also keyboard layout has changed and does not fit to my application anymore. Besides the spare stylus I ordered does not have a tether attachment as the stylus inside the unit has.
“Dear Mr. Pulster,
I am the MD of Germany and would like to intrduce myself to you. Please see following my answers for your last comments:
a) In general we do not sell spare parts. We have 3 repair facilities worldwide where we have special trained people in order to guarantee high quality repairs of our products. Additional we offer various service levels from basic to all-inclusive. Further information about I-serv can be found on our website.
b) There have been no changes to the WAP G2 keyboards. Beginning of March we launched the WAP 3 which is available with 3 various key boards which are different to the WAP G2 keyboards. Further details can be found on our website.
c) I am not sure to understand what your issue is regarding the stylus you’re ordered and that your unit can not be switched on.
If you agree I would ask a colleague from the German helpdesk to call you in order to investigate with you directly on the two issues mentioned under point c.
Furthermore I can offer you to call the German help desk directly (+49-2154-9282 33). The operation times are from Monday to Friday 8 am to 5 pm.
With very best regards
Juergen Heim”
When the Workabout Pro is shipped from the factory, the backup battery is switched off to ensure that the charge level complies to shipping and safety regulations and is maintained in a partially charged state to maximize its calendar life. This applies to any Li-ion battery rechargeable battery.
The quick start guide that is shipped with the unit, describes how the user should activate the terminal as it comes out of the box.
http://community.psionteklogix.com/cfs-file.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Wikis.Components.Files/knowledgebase/4073.WORKABOUT-PRO-G2-C-Quick-Start-Guide.pdf
This is further discussed in chapter 2 of the user manuals which are also found on the community:
2.1 The Backup Battery
2.2 Turning The WORKABOUT PRO On And Off
2.2.1 Installing The Battery And Switching The Unit On
2.2.2 Switching The Unit Off (Suspend)
3.3 Switching The Hand-Held On And Off
http://community.psionteklogix.com/cfs-file.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Wikis.Components.Files/knowledgebase/1050.WORKABOUT-PRO-G2-Windows-CE5.0-User-Manual.pdf
http://community.psionteklogix.com/cfs-file.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Wikis.Components.Files/knowledgebase/5554.WORKABOUT-PRO-G2-Windows-Mobile-6.1-User-Manual.pdf
Thanks for your reply. Please let me add some points:
a) the Texklogix definition of "spare parts" is hard to understand. Some month ago, G2 backup batteries are impossible to get, now it can be ordered separately. Customer is not happy to ship unit back to service center if he's easily able to exchange parts like backup battery himself.
Another example of sales reality: customer lost screws to attach endcap/backplate. I can not provide spare screws nor part.nomber. Customer lost antenna of Wifi xMod, no spares to supply.
the most accessories to WAP come bulk = without any helpful instruction, theres a lot to do to archive open source information standards.
b) WAP G2 rev 7 (production code 2010) has a lot additional key descriptions (F-keys). Keyboard lettering also changed from G0 to G1.
c) WAP G2 are shipped with power switch OFF by default. Resulting in a dead-out-of-the-box unit for end customers. New stylus has tether hole. No big issue to talk about, just the quantity of minor changes and the lack of communication does not make the life easier in customer relations.
Please let me add that your helpdesk called me very fast and helpful, its great to see how service is improving with this community platform. Thanks a lot !
Product no. mess is continueing with WAP3: label on battery compartment says 7527-G2. Why cant you name the new baby simply 7529 ?
Hi Chris,
You are correct, we probably do have some improvement potential in the structuring and naming of spare parts and accessories. Having spent time in other sectors and businesses, spare parts is often messy given legacy requirements, X-compatibility, SKU reduction demands (all on spare parts). However for some things, like batteries, that will ultimately need to be replaced on almost all products in time (they wear out like tires on your car) the numbers should be cleaner.
Let us look at this internally to see if there are some improvements we can make to our processes to make it easier for customers.
Thanks for highlighting... -Mike
Today I updated our company's Ikon accessories list, syncing it with the Teklogix Master List. I still see no harmonized product names and codes, but found a lot mistakes. Its hard to understand for me that this issue seems so unimportant within Teklogix. Some (not all) issues:
CH30XX High Capacity Battery - 5000 mAh - IKON
xx as place holder not to understand, CH3000 for 5000mAh and CH3001 etc. for updates is reasonable.Second, why do you quote your product name is in capital letters and without the stupid special "o" ?
CH4000 Docking Station Desktop - 90-240V AC Multi-National Adapter - spare stylus
in general: technical details and accessories lists should not be a part of a product name
9008693 Power Lead - Quad Dock & charger - North America
product is named "Quad Docking Station"
9007611 Power Lead - Quad Dock & charger Swiss
The country is "Swizerland".
CH1070 Portable docking module with RS232 for Ikôn
of course we are talking about ikon accessories all the time :)
CH1071A Portable docking module with HF RFID
Adding just a letter is no consistent product code.
CH1005A Option 1 Vehicle Cradle - 12/24V - 1USB/2 RS232 Serial Ports and power with stylus
change of product code (former 1000A/B/C) without reason
CH1215 Vehicle Power Outlet Extension Cable for vehicle cradle
"Vehicle Cradle"
CH1205 Vehicle Cradle Power Extension Cable (Fuse Cable and Ground Cable not available from PTX)
Distribution infos out of product names !
WA4006 Mount - RAM B 101
1:1 cut&paste from Workabout PRO list, makes no sense to customers.
CA1032 USB Active Sync Cable -1.2m/4ft (inlcudes retention kit)
"includes"
CH6101 Stylus including Tethers - Pack of 5
"tethers"
My result: Teklogix being a worldwide company with a lot cash and manpower is not able to supply a simple product list without typos and basic editors end quality control.